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Jhoward

Whoever Controls the Schools Controls the World

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idk about the ratio where my son attends public school there is a 12-15:1 student/teacher ratio and my other 2 kids attend private school my 3rd grader has 28 in his class and my 8th grader has 24 in hers per teacher. usually the private schools have higher ratios because they pay tution and tution pays teachers. The public schools in ohio require teachers to have a degree in their teaching field to be full time teachers. I know this because my husband taught 7-12 grade.

 

it sounds like you have something againist public schools

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heathbar, I love that you post things to bring up additional points of view so that all points can be brought to light. I have not accused anyone of anything and it is unfruitful for you to do so. That is not the purpose of this or any other thread. I am clearly against public schools, I stated that from the beginning - but I also stated that everyone has their own decisions to make. I have posted on here valid statistics and scripture whether you choose to believe them or not. My previous post looking at private schools vs. public schools was information I researched, not my own personal opinion. I have only experienced public school in my life, and now homeschooling with my children. Outside of maybe a kindergarten class I have never seen a smaller class size than around 20-25 kids, this having attended, and been employed in schools. However, that is clearly one very small area of what a public school is made up of. I am glad that some of you have good public school experiences. I think that is wonderful. But I also know that no school is exempt from what I see on my local news where I live, and when the governement (which is so clearly anti-Christ) is in control of something as much as is within my choosing I will likely not take part in it.

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Just wanted to brag on my kid a bit- she wrote in permanent marker real big- Jesus Is Lord on back of a plain white Hanes T-shirt this morning (This on her own, not my doing) and wore it to school today!!! So yes, she's a walking witness right now everywhere she goes to the other kids and the school hasn't called yet so I am guessing they did not have a problem with it. It made my heart swell to watch her walk into school with it. There are a number of Muslim kids there and I think it is a great and peaceful way to plant those seeds of faith into people's minds. I am thinking of copying her idea myself.

 

So cool Diamondring, thank you for sharing with us!!!

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Here are some of the benifts of sending kids to public school.

They develop social skills.

They are more ready to face the world.

Parents can continue a sadly often much needed dual income.

They learn things in cohorts with peers which prepares them for post -secondary education.

There views are tested and made stronger because of alternate views.

They are prepared to witness in a world of alternate views.

I see the benifits of home school too- I just dont think its fair that we label public schools as bad places, because alot of good comes from them!

 

Thank you for the list mommajean. We will briefly go through each one of these as I have the time to post.

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please don't misunderstand me, I am not against them existing and being used - I am against putting my children in them, and more often then not think it is not the best solution for christian children.

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Ok, first benefit from the list i just looked at was that the children learn social skills.

 

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that children learn much of their social skills from their parents and this is mostly true. When we send our children to school though they often become more peer oriented and directed, especially as they get older. I personally want my children to be closer to their family than their peers. When was the last time you were in a room full of people the exact same age as you? For me it was public school. The classroom is not reflective of what you will experience when you get out in the "real world." My 5 year old did not need to be around other 5 year olds to know how to act like a 5 year old! I have some home-schooling friends, but I have more friends that have sent their children to public school, and all the accounts I have are that when their child came home from the first day of school they had to undo behavior and attitude that was learned by peers in the classroom.

 

 

This paper fully addresses the issue - and I like it because it is unbiased - I can tell that it was not written by anyone advocating for homeschooling.

 

http://murphylibrary.uwlax.edu/digital/jur/2002/koehler-langness-pietig-stoffel-wyttenbach.pdf

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Homeschooling is fine for some but not everyone.

As Christian parents sending our kids to public school and PAYING THE SCHOOL TAXES we should instead rise up and make our voices loud and clear to school boards and teachers and school staff about what we won't tolerate being acceptable to teach to our kids and we should follow through with Godly solutions brought about by prayer. Have curriculum be reviewed by us Christian parents at all times to stay in line with what we believe. Such as collectively being fine with creation not being taught in school as long as evolution is not taught either.

With raised voices, we can make differences. In our school district at home in PA Christian parents formed a religious release class that all the parents could send their children to for an afternoon each week in that they were taught the Word and Creationism, the students in religious release class were NOT allowed to be taught evolution at all and the situation worked to bring peace.

I am concerned that if we remove ALL Christian students from our public schools we will not effect the youth of non Christian kids or teachers and staff at all. My daughter has led other students to a relationship with Jesus Christ while at recess in school, what if they were no one else around to tell them of Jesus? It is for this reason I would not advocate ALL Christians coming out of the public school.

Also as long as property owners are the ones paying the school taxes I do not think anyone would care if our kids weren't there since they are still getting paid the same amount of money regardless of if our kids are there or not. They may even rather enjoy this since there would be no opposition then to teach whatever they wanted to the other kids. If you don't like it leave is already the world's song,why give into what the devil would want us to do so he can further pervert the minds of the children in the world.

I think we should remember that God is our refuge, an ever present help in time of need. The children belong to Jesus, All the children belong to Jesus and for some children with worldly parents school is the only safe place for them to be. I am wonering that if we lose our Christian families within the school that are fighting the good fight of faith, will we lose or delay the next generation being saved as well. Wouldn't it be a better solution to join forces as Christian parents within the school and work together to shine the light of Jesus to our community through the public school. Our love and support shown to the teachers and staff and children and a loud voice of intolerance to teaching those things unacceptable to us such as sex and evolution and insisting on pulling our kids out of these particular lessons can make more of a impact than we can really imagine if we dare to stand up and do it.

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please don't misunderstand me, I am not against them existing and being used - I am against putting my children in them, and more often then not think it is not the best solution for christian children.

 

Ok let's pull all the christian children out of public schools and homeschool them. What would be the point? Aren't we to go out in the world and preach the gospel and set an exmple of how we live, talk, and act? If all the christian children were at home learning their ABC's wouldn't it be difficult to set an example for their peers?

 

We can't shelter our children for ever and their is nothing wrong with diversity, I want my kids to see how other children behave and act because then I can show them how not to act. I want my children to be around their peers and the pressures that go along with it. then they can make wise decisions or God forbid bad ones and learn from them.

 

Public schools are the devil, it is our job to raise our children with values, morals, and ethics. It isn't the schools job to do that. If we as parents have ot do an occasional unlearning session for our kids that go to public or private school than oh well it's a good learning experience for both. and that is our job

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We have to remember that we are the ones given power and all authority over the devil. I pray over my kid's school for God's Holy Spirit to be in the hallways and classroms of the school uniting everyone with love and kindness through His working in each person's life that is involved with the school. When my daughter has problems with other kids (such as being mean to her) I encourage her to pray with me for that child and I pray for that child in her prescence and she often agrees with me in prayer. This is a learning oppurtunity on how to be a Christian living in a fallen world among those who belong to the world and follow the flesh and the devil's ways being ignorant of God and His ways, being void of the Holy Spirit's leading in their lives.

I agree that for some children and parents and within some school districts, homeschooling works better. If I lived in a school district that had violence issues like gang problems, my kid would not attend at least not until some major prayer intervention turned things around. We do need to keep our kids safe that is our job as parents also. I can see homeschooling being a good way to do that within some communities.

A previous post wrote that the students do not get to participate in sports. That is not the case in all districts. There were lots of kids on my daughter's soccer and basketball teams that were homeschooled. They did just as well with skill levels for the sport as well as socially. I worked with a handful of young adult homeschool graduates and they were just as intellegent and social as anyone else bypassing me to management positions actually. I trained them and a year later I worked for them, but they were great I am not complaining.

We need to seek God's guidance concerning how He wants us as individuals to educate our children, for me He impressed upon me that my daughter needs to remain in public school for elementary years in order to complete the call He has on her life. I don't know what that call is exactly but I know she has said, with conviction for several years, that she is going to be a youth pastor one day, so this is the best training ground He could give her.

I said before we are prepared to pull her out if we need to because we move around the nation frequently (at least once every 2 years), for my husband's job and we do not even know what school district we will be in for the entire length of her schooling. I won't send her to an school with gang problems but I won't homeschool either, it would not work with my or her personality.

I do think we should guard ourselves from being for or against homeschooling across the board for all Christian families. It seems to be a cause of division within the body of Christ and we shouldn't divide over such trivial matters it only serves to further the enemy of us all when we do n ot stand united as the Body of Christ. What if Joyce Meyer had home schooled all her kids instead of obeying the call of God on her life? We should also guard ourselves over feeling pride at homeschooling over parents that can't or won't, that is not a Christian attitude. We (Christians) in the past fell into all these traps of Satan concerning being stay at home Moms and we drove a wedge between our Body being for or agianst working outside the home across the board, lets learn from that and not repeat it. Lets support each other in the way God intended us to do. The most important thing is to know for sure you are fulfilling God's call for your family, not someone else's call.

Some battles are worth the fight, like abortion and same sex marriage, we cannot let the Church continue to be corrupted by the world's ways, but in this issue it is God's plan individually that counts. Ask and seek God's will concerning how He wants your child educated. He'll answer.

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Thank you ladies - I wonder if perhaps it is extremely different since I live in New York State, an extremely liberal state that is pushing many things on our children that perhaps is not happening in your state. As I have stated before I am truly not trying to condemn anyone's choices, and no matter where you go - homeschool, private, public - there are non-believers in every venue. No matter where our children go, we and they are called to be salt and light - set apart, distinct from the rest of the world. And please do not think for a minute that I think that is totally not possible and that no child will turn out ok if they are sent to public school - I know of children who are flourishing in college as christians who attended public school, private school, and homeschooled. I know that God can do anything. But I also know, given the options that I have where I am, homeschooling is our only real option. And given the limited access parents our given to our public schools in my area - if I had to go back to work I would make sure I made enough to send my children to a decent private school in the area. Anyhow, Diamondring, I totally agree - I personally just wanted to present the statistical info and the scriptures on this topic - so I will leave it at that because I wasn't truly aiming for dissension!

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No, I did not think that you were Jhoward, it just is an area I have witnessed causing a division in our home church during the last year (among our Woman's Bible Study Group). I should have been more specific so no one took it personally. Divisions among the women of the church are also in those who are sending their kids to private Christian schools vs. those who are sending to public schools and among the stay-at-home vs. working moms in the church (it is a big church at home in Pa, around 4,000 members). Sorry I meant nothing personal to you. The choice is very dependent on where you live, personality of your child, and if staff our for or against Christianity, and God's plan first and foremost. Much of the staff here in this particular OR elementary school is Christian despite the area around us (Portland) being very liberal and we parents are free to come into the school and our child's classroom whenever we want without prior notice. In Pa (our district anyway)we were not allowed access into our child's classroom during the school day without prior arrangements (to keep them safe we were told), we were not at all personally pleased with this but I knew the majority of teacher's outside of school so I wasn't worried about liberal ideas being imposed I knew they were all Conservative to the core and if anything they were secretly drilling in those conservative values to the children not liberal ones=)

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yea our schools in ohio must be different or at least our district. I can drop in anytime unannounced. legally the school can't keep you from doing that regardless of what they say their policies are.

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Dimaondring I hear what you are saying and that is sad - I have experienced small groups of people that get defensive around people who make different choices then themselves in these areas but I have not experienced any such division in our church. If anything it our congregation is probably a little too diplomatic for my liking :) But that being said it is very clear that in our church we all love each other and value each other as family etc. so I think at times people say nothing just to keep the peace, which is not all bad depending on what the issue is. And as you mentioned before, these aren't exactly moral issues. I know for sure in our school district it has become less and less open to parents coming in, and certainly you are not "allowed" to drop in.

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I went to sign my daughter up for private preschool in our small town this past year- the one that everyone rushes to get into- and the teacher told me I couldnt come volenteer or vist for like the first 3 months. I was horrified, I want to be welcome whenever! I just didnt feel right about this so we have signed her up at the public school, where I know the teachers, the cirriclum and so on. I think you just have to be carefull no matter in the choices we make!

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I agree with you mommajean.

You can't even be 100% about a Christian schools.

I had originally wanted to attend our local Christian college until I received their material and learned they did not believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts of the Holy Spirit including God's healing and prayer language and required you to sign a paper stating you agreed with them in order to be accepted into this so-called"Christian" college. I would never want my child being taught this outright lie of Satan they were somehow deceived into believing.

I opted to attend the local secular community college instead where there was a large number of born-again Christians and professors. We came together as Christian students for prayer and Bible Study and formed an outreach to the entire school campus, reaching other students for Jesus Christ and many were saved.

This was a far more valid Christian experience then if I had attended the local Christian college and gotten my head filled with religious teachings and traditions instead of living The Word and using God's empowerment of His Spirit in my life.

Incidentally I later had a tenant (we used to own a house that we rented out as 3 apartment units) that graduated from this college and her life was a complete mess. As she grew in the truth of God's Word God began to work in her life and when we did part ways about two years ago (because she got married and they bought a new house together) her life was changed, she was no longer a mess, she was blessed by God!

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you def. have to research whatever ever school your children attend whether it is private or public.

 

I have no desire whatsoever to homeschool, I don't have the patience to have my children around me 24/7. I love them, but I also love them at school. I don't know if God ever would call me to homeschool I have never asked. I attended a very small church school almost like homeschooling. The teachers were parents that taught and everything was done in the name of God. While I do have an above average IQ, I also believe that I could have done much better and my chances were hurt in the long run of life. I feel robbed of a proper education and I'm not talking spiritual education. Sometimes kids have learning issues that untrained people don't pick up on.

 

I had dyslexia and a comprehension problem and I was told repeatedly that I was lazy, I unapplied myself, I had the spirit of laziness in me as well as an uncaring attitude. My senior yr in high school a public one mind you with a teacher that was trained noticed my reading ability was lacking. I was tested and had a comprehension level of 5th grade and a vocabulary level of 7th grade. I learned to fake it, for yrs I was made ot feel stupid and lazy when that wasn't the case. I got spanked for bad grades even though I did my best. I almost didn't graduate from high school, I had to go to tutoring 3 times a week to catch up. Granted I amn in colloege and carry a 3.2 GPA so i am not stupid or lazy. Homeschooling has it's disadvantages. I know of several people that homeschool and the mom had no clue her some had a reading problem until 7th grade when he couldn't pass some state test. Granted not all public schools are bad or awesome and there are def. some people in private and public that should never even be around children and not all homeschooling parents know what they are doing and I'm sure some are on top of things. I'm not criticizing anyone here I am just sharing my experiences.

 

I really do feel and think that had I had a proper education growing up I would have been more successful at the college level instead i had to bust my butt at 40 to get there. I don't think any kid should be at a disadvantage because it goes againist religious beliefs. You have to teach them at home that is where they learn it

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I lack the patience too heathbr lol. Tested daily, hopefully growing in that area.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your own personal experience, that's a shame, and it makes you wonder, because it seems to me that someone would notice if a student was really struggling, in any situation.

 

When I was pregnant with our oldest daughter I was already reading about homeschooling and seeing as I was very career minded and really never knew that homeschooling existed I know that the idea did not come from me. I have been blessed with a small group of insightful homeschooling families that I am very greatly for because without the support I probably would be more overwhelmed than need be.

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I appreciate your sharing the personal story you did Heathbar and to share your heart like that was very helpful in understanding your view. It is terrible you were so misunderstood. I will not home school my daughter because she is so much smarter than me and if I tried she know it and I seriously do not need my daughter knowing how much smarter she is than me. I'd like to keep her respect a bit longer! Also I would be so tempted to use her as my Mother's helper to get housework done and help with the baby. She loves school so much too, she really does, on Sunday nights she is so excited to go to school in the morning I would feel I was forcing her to miss out on a major part of her life and the only time she gets to feel independent from her Mother. I was scared to send her to this school when we arrived in Oregon, she reminded me that I should not worry but trust that God and His Blessing go with her wherever she goes.

I myself would have benefited in High School if home schooled. Most everyone was so nasty mean to me that I just stayed home from school at least 2-3 days a week just so I did not have to be around the people, but I always did the lesson work at home so I received A's and B's anyway and my Mom did not mind writing me excuses for school. But home-school is an honest (since my Mom had to lie on excuse notes and say I was sick when I wasn't, God thank you for your mercy)option that they just did not have available back then for my generation and she could not afford the tuition for Christian school even though I begged her to send me there since a lot of my friends were going there.

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I don't remember home school being available when I went to school. Around 5 years after I graduated there seemed to be a sudden surge in home school all of a sudden when before it was never heard of. Of course that is around the time Columbine occurred as well.

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"Incidentally, home schooling was widespread in the United States until the 1870s, when compulsory school attendance laws and the development of professional educators created the institutionalized form of education we think of today as “school.” Among the historical figures who were home-schooled: Presidents George Washington, John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Roosevelt, plus Thomas Edison, General Robert E. Lee, Booker T. Washington, and Mark Twain."

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what i meant is I think it is a lot better than it was 35 yrs ago. society has tried to make it better as far as tools and learning that is available. that is what i meant.

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