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Jhoward

Why Marraige between one woman and wone man needs to be protected.

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I have never in my entire life seen any Christian promoting God hating anyone. God is love, He is not able to hate anyone and we all know He loves sinners and came to save them same as we as sinners were saved by Him. I don't know what you are talking about picketing for when the thread was why do we as Christians have to uphold marriage as being between a man and a woman. The signs I was referring to were an ad at the top of the page for I support gay weddings stickers. No Christian advocates that God hates anybody but that He loves them so very much He went through suffering and death so that you could be saved by our punishment being laid upon His own body so we would not suffer God's punishment for sin. Sometimes I think the Church needs to be reminded that God is a God of Justice as well as forgiveness and if you have not received the Lord as your Savior there is nothing more He can do for you, the punishment will be yours to take for not receiving Jesus as The Way to The Father. To hide that truth from anyone is disgraceful to them for you are hiding the grace of God Almighty from them and making the laborers in the fields for Christ work all the more harder. You hinder the Body of Christ and God's plan of salvation to all people when you hide the Truth of God's Word from them, and the Truth starts with Repentant heart ready to turn away from our wicked ways and an acknowledgment that we have not been following the way of God as we know from the example of prophets in the Old Testament and from John The Baptist.

Edited by DiamondRing
mispelled word

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I'm not attacking anyone, and I have seen christians show severe judgement with a fire and brimstone messge all in the name of God. So it does happen. Nobody said we should go out a harrass gay people, but it happens a lot christians and non christians do it. It's called hate. Gay people have been severly beaten, sodomized and other disguisting things just because they were gay. Found dead with signs that say God hates fags. Just because we don't physically witness it doesn't mean it doesn' happen.

 

Back to the title of this thread should the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman remain. As I said in my original post I don't know how how I feel about it. I just know it isn't my place to decide it's between them and God. Too many christians think that wearing that title makes them superior to those that don't. And I'm not going to feel as though I'm not a christian just because I view it a little differently. We have all made some valid points, and some not so valid points. This topic strikes a nerve in society because of it's nature. Two guys getting married, which is againist my beliefs, isn't going to minimize my marriage or my faith unless I allow it to.

 

I am bowing out of this thread,

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diamondring - there are christian groups - cults that claim to be christian people who picket that God hates fags, that is what heathbar and I referred to in our posts. I don't think heathbar or I were talking in reference to the signs from the advertisements we had talked about prior.

 

I love your striaghtforward manner, and i seek out friends of such kind that I know are not afraid to tell me the truth - whether I am right or wrong in any situation. I don't see any blurry or gray lines in the bible and I like it when I can trust my friends to home me accountable to what the bible says. But I am also very aware that not everyone will respond or can handle the truth in the same fashion, and that is ok. I have multiple friends whom I have confronted on very specific and purposeful sin in their lives that they are already aware of because I know that I need to, and have done so in a loving fashion. But I have also said, I am not going to look at them poorly if they continue the sin and I am not going to hammer on it over and over again. This is very difficult for me because I know the hurt that can be caused by premarital sex, etc. And I know that our sin does not just effect us even if we don't know it, and others will maybe evcen be more hurt in certain situations.

 

I like fire and brimstone, black and white preachers, and I think they have their place and are totally necessary and are good and purposeful for many people - but not everyone. John the Baptist is the perfect example of that in my opinion. On the other hand Jesus' teaching style seemed to be way more gentle. Both have their place.

 

It is easy for me to love those who I see as good Christian people, and very hard for me to love the unsaved that sometimes frustrate me to bits, and the Christians who don't practice what they say they believe. And I know on whatever influence leve I have in their lives it is my job to shine light and bring truth to them whenever possible. When I talk about sin to my relatives who are homosexual I let them know about the scriptures that talk about no sin being greater than another, no one else being able to condemn and decide whether they will go to heaven or hell, that God is the only one who knows the hearts of men - there will be so-called christians who won't be in heaven. Because by our conversation they already know that sin leads to death etc. All sin. Most people know that there is more to this life than just you live, you suffer, then you die - even if they don't accept God. Most people know that there is some truth out there about good and evil, and right and wrong... Even if they have not accepted what that truth is. It was built in to every person. Anyone, christian, who says that they are without sin is deceived, and is not of God. I don't think I know anyone that would be in that category to my knowing.

 

Oh, and I wanted to touch on what heathbar brought up about things like obesity. Or in other words gluttony or the such - sins that are often overlooked. I thought that was a great point, one that we should all ponder because let's pinpoint our own personal sin, whteher it be angry outbursts, adultery, lust, apathy, pride, gluttony, immorality, coarse jesting or filthy talk....... Whatever it be it will lead to death, even if we have eternal life in Christ. You may not see the death it causes, because it might be something on the inside like bitterness, or something in one of our children that hardens their hearts and leads them astray, or a physical illness..... This is a broken and fallen world and until Christ comes back these things are not going to go away. We continually invite them in, instead of continually leaning on and focusing on Jesus.

 

Heathbar - as far as that reaction you got from your friend about converting to catholicism I am not that surprised. Catholic doctrine has a lot of manmade rules that are not biblical. However I know some great christians who are catholic and have no doubt of where they truly stand. Your friend is probably concerned about you praying to saints, or Mary, and being taught doctrine that is false. Which of course could be in any church but is more well known to us in the Catholic church. That being said, I am sure there was a more graceful way she could have broached the subject with you by what was posted.

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real quick response to your last statement, yea I have a problem with praying to the saints, Mary etc...that is something I don't do. My hubby explained it to me and said it's like they don't actually pray to them, they view it the same way as if I were ot ask a friend to pray for me. they figure saints are a little closer to God and if they can put in a good word than the earthly people are gonna ask. I can see where he is coming from but I still don't do it or agree with it.

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Seriously lol - the saints , closer to God or not - and I'm personally not sure that they are, are not going to hear their prayers, or answer them. They are dead. lol. Sorry, I hope that is not offensive but I just don't get it at all. Especially since the bible says not to pray to anyone else.

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I do not feel it lessens a Marriage joined by God but I do feel as Christ's Body upon the Earth we are doing Him a disservice to vote yes to gay marriage or show support for gay marriage. I have not ever heard of heard of Christians saying God hates any persons regardless of what sin they are entangled in but only of God's salvation and His Way of Freedom from the bondage of sin. I have however seen a number of churches supporting and accepting gay lifestyle and gay marriage. In discussion with some of them they say that all we need to do as Christians is show them love by accepting their lifestyle and then leave it up to God after they die to send them to hell and we'll never have to see them again anyway. That isn't love at all, I think that's a sickening way of thinking. Others believe that God created them as gay and that just doesn't line up with Scripture or the goodness of God at all. The reason I can so confidently say it is a form of demonic bondage to sin is that is what all the people I have heard testimony call it who have been freed by Jesus Christ and their faith in Him. They have been delivered (set-free), healed, and made whole in Christ's redeeming Power and are living godly blessed lives now in the Lord as new creatures in Christ Jesus receiving for themselves their identity in Jesus Christ and leaving their past sinful lifestyles in the past., putting to death their past fleshly sinful nature through baptism in water. receiving the promised Holy Spirit and boldly going forth to tell others the good news of Jesus Christ, that everyone can be saved! If that is typical of what other Born-again Believer's say then Praise God for His Great Mercy on us!

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Seriously lol - the saints , closer to God or not - and I'm personally not sure that they are, are not going to hear their prayers, or answer them. They are dead. lol. Sorry, I hope that is not offensive but I just don't get it at all. Especially since the bible says not to pray to anyone else.

 

I'm with you there

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I do not feel it lessens a Marriage joined by God but I do feel as Christ's Body upon the Earth we are doing Him a disservice to vote yes to gay marriage or show support for gay marriage. I have not ever heard of heard of Christians saying God hates any persons regardless of what sin they are entangled in but only of God's salvation and His Way of Freedom from the bondage of sin. I have however seen a number of churches supporting and accepting gay lifestyle and gay marriage. In discussion with some of them they say that all we need to do as Christians is show them love by accepting their lifestyle and then leave it up to God after they die to send them to hell and we'll never have to see them again anyway. That isn't love at all, I think that's a sickening way of thinking. Others believe that God created them as gay and that just doesn't line up with Scripture or the goodness of God at all. The reason I can so confidently say it is a form of demonic bondage to sin is that is what all the people I have heard testimony call it who have been freed by Jesus Christ and their faith in Him. They have been delivered (set-free), healed, and made whole in Christ's redeeming Power and are living godly blessed lives now in the Lord as new creatures in Christ Jesus receiving for themselves their identity in Jesus Christ and leaving their past sinful lifestyles in the past., putting to death their past fleshly sinful nature through baptism in water. receiving the promised Holy Spirit and boldly going forth to tell others the good news of Jesus Christ, that everyone can be saved! If that is typical of what other Born-again Believer's say then Praise God for His Great Mercy on us!

 

 

the funny thing is that I agree with what most of what you say, and no church should ever close it's door to anyone ever. As I said I have seen and lived the judgement and hate and it all came from christians so trust me when I say it exists. when we were growing up there was a lady in our church that got married to this guy, the elders of this church told this couple they shouldn't get married. he died in a car accident 5 yrs later and the elders of the church actually said to her within days of his death. That He died because they didn't obey the visions againist them becoming married and it was God's way of punishing her for not walking under the obiendec or him

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I am sorry for those out there who cause so much deception on Who God is. I have also been hurt in the past by judgmental and religious minded people that is why those who spoke the Truth to me, that I could indeed receive God's grace as well are so treasured in my heart always. When I was high school none of the "good' Christian kids were allowed to be friends with me or have me over or come to my house to "hang-out" because all those parents saw was that I smoked therefore to them I was a bad influence to be around their kids. The only kids that had anything to do with me were kids that did drugs, partied and drank. I didn't drink or do drugs only smoked cigs, but because I smoked these were who my friends were. Of course they were not very good friends but they were all I had available at the time. I smoked because my older sister smoked and she was so cool in my eyes, my parents smoked and it was just what we did in our home. None of us smoke any longer, God has delivered us all from this addiction. We were a good close family, we played cards and board games together often, we watched movies together, we went for walks and on picnics together. We weren't bad but we were perceived as bad by the Christians we knew around our community. We were however doing something bad, something very wicked and it was robbing us of of God's blessing and it was killing all of us in a slow death. I am grateful for laws that were later put in place that caused teens to be unable to purchase cigarettes until age 18, I am grateful for those who cared to speak the truth of God's Word to me and later to all my family. That we could come to Jesus and be saved and set free and He loved us even if we smoked and He loved my parents even if they passed their sin down to us girls and if we repented of cigarette smoking and renounced it from our lives, He would come in and help us overcome the addiction and set us free from it. AND HE DID! What a great day it was to learn my identity was not smoker, because times have changed but back in the day people were very defined as smoker or nonsmoker and smoker became your identity if you smoked not just a bad habit or addiction.To learn the Truth of God's Word the Truth of who I was in Christ was a day of Liberty for me. Christ came to set the captives free and we are anointed with His Spirit to be the ones who help Him with that mission!

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When the king heard what was written in the law, he tore his clothes in despair.

2 Chronicles 34:19 NLT

This verse was in my devotional today and it fits what I am trying to get across, that even though God forgives sin and is a merciful and loving God, the law is still necessary to convict the sinners heart and lead them to the salvation of Jesus Christ. God is love and to lead sinners into a relationship with Jesus requires conviction and I am concerned we as Christians have began to replace the word conviction with the word judgment because when the world feels conviction they often label it as feeling judged. We as Christians should be readily available to explain the difference between judgment and conviction to those lost and in the world and thus have an opportunity available to point them to Scriptures concerning Christ's forgiveness to get rid of that conviction feeling. We must always remember God disciples those He loves and conviction is a warning of His judgment to come for the ones He loves. His discipline is very good for us to have when out of line with God and His Word to get us back into fellowship with Him and on the straight and narrow path that leads to the manifestation of His full salvation Blessing.

Edited by DiamondRing
Grammor errors

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it's very hard fo ra lot of christians to draw the line between conviction and judgement. I guess I don't feel liek it is my place to convict anyone because i have faults and sins that are no worse than theirs. I see where u r coming from diamond and have from the beginning. The only thing I feel i can do is say i am againist gay marriage because it goes againist my convictions. It plants the seed small as it may be. it puts it there.

 

I'll come back and finish this gotta run to the store.

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Sure I am not saying to do anything other then that.

We as Christians need to continue to not waver on what is right and wrong by allowing the world to tell us what is right and wrong. We need to let The Word tell us what is right and wrong and not make ourselves our own Gods to say what is right and wrong.

It is Christians who are the salt and light to the world and that salt cannot lose it's saltiness or it will be good for nothing (useless to God) and our light cannot grow dim and become just another shade of gray to the world or it will not operate with full power to shine light upon sin and draw sinners to Christ.

To retain that it is wrong and to vote against gay marriage is to do your part in His plan to protect God's Blessing upon America and help the one caught up in homosexual sin to find their hope of freedom through Christ's work on the cross.

To not allow the world's way of rationalizing away sin and the consequences of sin to a person's soul. To pray for those people of the world especially those calling themselves Christians who are trying to justify homosexuality as acceptable to God or not harmful to anyone is all we asking because that is false teaching by them on what the Scriptures say about it.

It actually is our job to convict sin but we do it with the light in us shining brightly, that light is Jesus Christ through His Spirit and our sword is the Word of God going forth from our mouth, our testimony is that Jesus is Lord and it is Him who makes the rules, not ourselves.

I think we have lived in a democracy for so long, we do not understand how a Kingdom works and operates. Some seem to act like if we can just get enough of God's people to agree it is o.k and not a sin to be committing homosexual acts then because the majority rules it will o.k and not a sin.

That is not how a kingdom works, if the king declares something then it is, if all people on Earth said homosexual acts were o.k and not a sin, because God has declared that it is, then it still is a sin, regardless of all the people saying it is not.

He is the King who reigns forever and ever, and it is Him who sets the law, not us. The only way to gain freedom from the law of sin and death is to surrender your life to Christ and receive Him as your Savior and Lord. When He gets ownership of your heart, (meaning your very soul), then He will begin His mighty work of sanctification and complete transformation into being who He created you to be from the beginning of Creation.

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