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Sue S.

Where do you stand on supporting a war with Iraq?

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Should the U.S. go to war against Iraq? I'm especially interested in the opinions of those in the armed services.

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:mad: No the United States should NOT go to war with Iraq. It will only open a can of worms, we as a nation will not be able to deal with. Not any other country wants to stand with us on war against Iraq, come on now, who wants biolical warfare turned on them, right? That is exactly what will happen to us. All these terrorists already here hiding in secret places ready to launch out at the Americans will happen WHEN WE HIT Iraq. It may even usher in Marshall Law.

No No No we must not go to war against Iraq.:mad:

 

Yonit:mad: :eek:

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We already are at war... or didn't you see what happened on 9-11. The middle east is an enemy of God, Dod's chosen people and Christians. As a nation blessed of God, we have an obligation to Israel, and to protect ourselves from attack also. At the very least, as Christians we should support the decisions of our God-chosen leader.

In my opinion, the term conscientious objector is an oxymoron.

In the bible Romans 13:1-4 tells us that God has authorized civil governing authorities. They bear the sword, verse 4 tells us, to punish those who do wrong. God has authorized civil authorities to punish criminals. Usually this is done through process of law, but laws also authorize the police and soldiers to take potentially lethal action in certain situations.

We see from these scriptures that civil government, specifically the function of law enforcement, is a divinely authorized role. The police do not bear the sword in vain (verse 4). They carry potentially lethal weapons as part of their divinely authorized job of preventing social chaos. They hold a terror to those who do wrong, verse 3 tells us, and in so doing, they are God's servants (verses 4, 6).

If a prowler is outside our home, he may be armed and dangerous. It is not wrong to phone the police and ask them to confront the prowler. Unless through misapplied biblical power one decides to exclude themselves from performing or honoring such duties. It is hypocrisy for a pacifist to expect the police and soldiers to protect their freedom.

Pacifists, in fact, regard all violence as inherently wrong. According to strict pacifist interpretations, Christians must never use force, even in personal self-defense. They must always be ready to absorb violence without resistance or retaliation. Pacifists see it as logically inconsistent and hypocritical to make allowances on the personal level for that which they condemn on the national and international level.

Even calling the police to report a crime is viewed as un-Christian by many pacifists, because it is, in effect, a request for "vengeance," carrying with it the potential for violent confrontation.

Pacifists make the point that one's loyalties and obligations to God have an important bearing on one's loyalties and obligations within society. When there is a conflict between obeying God or obeying one's government, "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).

To accommodate such views, many countries allow pacifists to apply for conscientious objector status. Conscientious objection is the refusal, on moral grounds, to serve in the armed forces or to support military action. Nations with mandatory military service usually allow conscientious objectors to perform alternative community service.

"You shall not kill" (Exodus 20:13). But the same law code also prescribed the death penalty for many transgressions. If you dismiss such capital punishments as "old law" and do not want to apply them to 'modern Christianity', you must also relent against the other commandments of the law including this one. The people who carried out the death penalty were upholding the law, not breaking it. The same is true today.

In Old Testament days, the Jews were not in the military not because of pacifist beliefs, but because of the paganism associated with the army and because of Sabbath issues. The bible goes to great length applauding the war efforts of the Army of Israel. King David’s greatest failure occurred when he stayed home from military service. Today we live in never before seen freedom because of the sacrifice of men and women in the armed forces.

The time has not yet come for people to beat swords into plowshares. Only when Jesus returns to Earth to rule and reign will war become obsolete.

"Therefore render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" (KJV).

War is lawful for a duly constituted government and its citizens both non-Christian and Christian.

God set out the principle that "whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed" (Genesis 9:6). This precept was reemphasized in Exodus 21:23-25, in the so-called "law of retaliation": "You are to take life for life, eye for eye." To allow such acts to happen without proper punishment would only serve to increase violence.

Further, there is no biblical commandment against killing. The sixth commandment (Exodus 20:13) declares: "You shall not murder." Several Hebrew verbs mean "kill"; this one specifically means "murder."

The execution of criminals for serious crimes and the taking of human lives in war were never regarded as murder in Old Testament times. Nor was killing in self-defense punishable as a crime under Old Testament law.

Luke 3:14. "Then some soldiers asked him [John the Baptist], 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely -- be content with your pay.'" John condemned not the profession itself, but the unethical practices associated with it. He nowhere advised soldiers to leave the military.

· Matthew 8:10. "I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith." Jesus thus praised the extraordinary faith of the Roman centurion in Capernaum. Jesus did not oppose earthly governments or their right to maintain armies, nor participation of the faithful in those armies.

· Matthew 10:34. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Christ came to bring peace between people and God. But the inevitable result of Jesus' coming is conflict between good and evil on the earth.

· Luke 22:36-38. "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Thus Jesus warned his disciples of perilous times to come. They would need defense and protection. These are not the words of a pacifist. (This does not conflict with Jesus' forbidding Peter to use a sword in a religious cause -- Matthew 26:52; John 18:36.)

· John 2:15. "So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area...." Jesus violently drove the moneychangers from the outer court of the Temple. The Greek language implies that he used the whip on the moneychangers as well as on the sheep and oxen. Physical force can be applied with justice.

· Matthew 5:9. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Peace is rarely the product of appeasement. In the words of Billy Graham: "There come times when we have to fight for peace."

· Matthew 5:39. "Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." A slap on the cheek is an insult, but certainly an insufficient provocation for violence. Christians are to go out of their way to avoid conflict and live in a peaceable manner. This does not mean we must accept abuse.

To suggest that Jesus is requiring Christians to be passive victims of violence, abuse and exploitation is taking the scripture far beyond its intent.

Some commentators have also suggested that Jesus' advice involved a special circumstance. If his followers at that time had replied to Roman violence in kind, they would have been swiftly crushed, and the fledgling Christian cause extinguished. It should also be noted that Jesus himself did not quietly turn the other cheek when slapped, but boldly protested the affront (John 18:22-23).

Understood in its own context and that of other scriptures, "turning the other cheek" does not support an attitude of non-resistant pacifism in the global arena.

· Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies..." Is there an incompatibility between love and the taking of human life? A Christian never delights in the killing of people. But one can actively oppose a criminal without hating him. Through the centuries, devout soldiers with deeply held Christian convictions have shown that it is indeed possible to overcome hate in one's heart and kill without a vengeful spirit of hatred.

"Loving one's enemy" does not mean accepting what he has done and allowing him to avoid responsibility for it. Love sometimes calls upon Christians to restrain an enemy that seeks to harm the innocent. Seeking justice is not inconsistent with loving and forgiving the perpetrators. An enemy can be challenged in love. We can forgive him, but he still has to live with the consequences of his actions -- and sometimes die because of them.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was saying that Christians should not lash out in revenge, returning evil for evil. Vengeance and vindictiveness have no place in the Christian life. But it is not inconsistent with biblical teaching to defend oneself and one's loved ones. Love requires action to protect human life. Self-defense is not revenge, but the restraining of further evil.

· Acts 10:2. This sympathetic reference to the "devout and God-fearing" centurion Cornelius implies an acceptance of the worthiness of a military career.

· Ephesians 6:10-17; 2 Timothy 2:3-4. These and other military allusions of the apostle Paul do not square with a pacifist orientation. A pacifist would never use martial imagery in a positive context. Jesus also used illustrations of war and battle to convey spiritual lessons (Luke 14:31). The New Testament does not renounce using the physical equivalents of spiritual weapons.

· Hebrews 11. Military men are among those recognized as heroes of the faith.

· Romans 12:17-19. "Do not repay anyone evil for evil... If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone... Do not take revenge...." Notice that Paul says, "If it is possible." Christians are to cultivate peace with everyone -- to the extent possible.

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Twincrier,

 

I understand all your points, and they are very good. Yes I understand we are already at war, and it is a war against the principalities of the spiritual world.

 

The question at hand was should the U.S. go to war against Iraq.

And that is what I answered and that is what I meant. Yes the Christians have always been at war, the spiritual war, and it is intensfing sp), so the U.S. goes to war, and all this will backfire in our faces. Were in for more than we CAN CHEW.

 

Yonit:(

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Don't be afraid of the giants. With God all things are possible. More than we can chew? We can not only chew them up but spit them out as well. Israel has won against much worse odds. Certainly a country as blessed as the USA can defeat a bunch of backward third world Muslims.

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Thank you so much for your replies to my question. I was beginning to think it wasn't a pertinent question. May I give my opinion also? My son asked me about this the other day. When I look into the eyes of my children, I feel the weight of the responsibility of teaching them about God and His way of looking at the world. My first impulse was to say that unless the nations of the world stand with us, we shouldn't shoulder this burden alone. But, then I remembered the times that God whittled away the army of Israel until barely a remnant remained. When they were too few to accomplish anything on their own, He gave them victory. I think, too, that God calls us to not align ourselves with the world. Case in point, after the people of Israel begged for a king so that they could be like the other peoples, God gave them Saul...we all know what a disaster that was. So, seeking to align ourselves with the rest of the world is not necessarily always a good thing. Personally, I'm pretty anti-U.N. Many things they promote are very liberal, anti-God and anti-American. I am so happy that God has given us a president who seeks God everyday. God calls us to support those He places in leadership over us...unless they command us to sin. I believe George W. is here for "such a time as this." I believe that God's hand is upon him, and that if we are faithful to pray for our president, that God will hear our prayers and give him wisdom and discernment. So, I told my son that freedom isn't free. In our own family my grandmother lost her beloved brother in WWII. My father went to Korea; my brother is an airforce pilot. Throughout the world, people love us or hate us because we're strong and we stand together...always have. I think "fear of man is a snare." I think we need to pray for George W. Bush, and then let him lead. He's definately the guy we wanted in office for 911. He's still that same guy.

 

Sue S.

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remember the rest of us

 

Do please remember the rest of the world's population , when discussing war between America and Middle East countries .

There are a lot of people living very close to these so called hot spots and the inital fallout goes to them NOT the North American Continent .

There are other countires around the globe where terrorist activity is a day to day occurance .

Although I agree that the events of 11/9/01 were dreadful [ANY loss of life is to be deplored] , it was a fairly isolated [but grand scale] incident.

These things take place on a regular basis in countries in the middle east and , in our world , Northern Ireland . Remember Enniskillen and Omagh .

I have no decided opinion on the whys / wherefores , rights /wrongs of the conflict under present consideration .

We as Christians can only pray that the Lord's will would be carried and out wisdom given to those that have the rule over us.

 

W2

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i believe that the time is long overdue in dealing with iraq...since the end of the gulf war he has continually violated the u.n. conditions.....i do not like war, but sometimes it must be used as a last resort...i don't want to wait a few more years to let hussein stockpile even more in his arsenal...can you imagine what he can add to it in a few more years?...it has come down to 'get him before he gets us'....i don't want to be around when he comes for us...this man has used his own people to experiment on....if he will do that to his own, what do you think he will do to us?....the threat could come directly, or indirectly from him...i.e. giving nuclear or biological weapons to terrorists...the day is fast approaching for that to happen, if it hasn't already....this man is not compassionate towards his own people, let alone anyone else...remember the gulf war?...he didn't even provide all his soldiers with boots or adequate food...our soldiers shared their spare boots and food with the iraqi prisoners, and provided medical treatment for the sick and injured...how many other countries' soldiers would share what they have with their prisoners?....i only hope that the problem with iraq can be settled soon, with a minimal loss of innocent lives...it is a shame that one man can cause so much suffering for his people...and remember, there is a good possibility that he has a pilot of ours that was shot down during the gulf war...we can not sit back and see what happens....surely if we do, everyone will ask "why didn't president bush do something"....i thank God we have a president like him to lead us through these terrible times....i think he is compassionate, caring and truly has our citizens' best interests at heart....also, to the person that stated we don't have any other countries supporting us-we do....israel, england, kuwait, qatar, australia, turkey... just to name a few...

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I agree with Kristine. I do not like war and it is very scary, but Sadam is a powerful man and I am much more afraid of what could happen if we wait several more years.

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War with Iraq

 

WOW some replies were so lengthy I dare not even "engage" them...

 

The main thing to be brought to light here is that Jesus is our King, Savior and the end of the book says He triumphs over evil.

 

We, as Christians can have PEACE that the world cannot understand. Jesus said My Peace I give unto you! So we need to stand firm in His very capable strong outstretched arms.

 

BUT - if you have not given you heart to Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life, what are you waiting for?

 

The Bible says in Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

Psalm 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

 

Turn your heart to the Lord today...you do not know what tomorrow will hold. There only uncertainty in our future, but we can be secure in Christ!!!!!

 

Meanwhile we can all pray and support our friends, relatives, brothers and sisters in the Lord who are giving of themselves to protect our freedom here in the good 'ol USA! Let's show them in whom we are placing our trust - Jesus Christ.

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War with ISLAM

 

PS I forgot to mention the ISLAM issue here and do not want to bog down anyone's day... our church has many articles we have posted on our website if you are interested in this subject and also TWO very good guest speakers: David Dolan an American correspondent in the Middle East, he also writes articles for Worldnetdaily.com and also a testimony of a Palistinian Christian, a former freedom fighter who now loves Jesus! You can listen on-line. Here is the link fyi - http://www.calvarypo.org

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My English essay...

 

This is my English essay I wrote.... I am "Pro-War" Here are my thoughts...

 

 

The whole purpose of this war is to provide ourselves and our future generations freedom from terrorism, not for just our nation alone, but all nations, so that the people of our planet will not have to live in fear of terrorists. So they will not have to live in fear of going to school, of going to work, or going to sleep at night. This mission is to remove Saddam Hussein and his military from power, rid Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction, and to give freedom to the people of Iraq. For the people who cherish freedom and seek peace, these are difficult times. These such times can deepen our understanding for truth. The truth is that the single greatest threat to peace and freedom ,in our time, is terrorism. The future does not belong to terrorists or Saddam Hussein. The future belongs to those who seek the oldest and noblest dream of all, the dream of peace and freedom. The cold and harsh reality of the matter is that if action is not sought soon, both the lives of the Iraqi’s and we, as American’s, will be put in harm's way. We now know that the terrorists are plotting still more and greater catastrophes. We know that Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and his terrorists are seeking more terrible weapons – chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons. The threat posed by the connection between terrorist networks and regimes that possess weapons of mass destruction present us with the danger of another terrorist attack that could be magnitudes greater than what happened on September 11th. The Gulf War with Iraq, in the early nineties, ended with Saddam Hussein agreeing to disarm, but if you remember, the UN inspectors ran into road-block after road-block and eventually left Iraq, without accomplishing its mission. That is the reason President George W. Bush called for the UN Security Council to pass Resolution 1441. Thus, giving Iraq a final opportunity to disarm, and in so doing, eliminating the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction falling into the hands of terrorists. UN inspectors ,once again, entered Iraq looking for proof of disarmament but Iraq resumed the familiar process of deception. Iraq turned over to the United Nations a 12,200 page document containing nothing but a bunch of “mumbo jumbo” that denied the existence of any prohibited weapons. However, it failed to verify any destruction. The Iraqi’s once again began their game of “hide and seek”.

Mass grave sites across Iraq provide further evidence of Saddam's atrocities. Handcuffed prisoners are executed with sticks of dynamite shoved into their pockets. Screaming men plead for their lives as they are beaten by Saddam Hussein's secret police. Crimson fragments of bodies lie in the street, moments after a huge explosion, to the soundtrack of an Arab lament. The crowds gather round. People mutter and shake their heads. Then they pay 1,000 Iraqi dinars [50 cents] for laser discs containing footage of the appalling scenes. "'We smelled something rotten, and when we breathed in, we couldn't breathe out. The sky was full of smoke, and someone said it was chemicals. People started crying and running toward the mountains. I was burning and I became blind, but someone led me out. After walking for two days, we reached Iran.' [Wais Abdel] Qadr was the only member of his family to survive the gassing of Halabja by the Iraqi military on March 16, 1988." (The Washington Post, August 7, 2003)."Jailers often treated allegedly lagging players in ways certain to hurt, not improve, the athletes' performances on the field. After shaving their heads to humiliate them, athletes were hung upside down and the soles of their feet whipped. They were buried in hot sand up to their necks. Their fingers or ears were amputated. Electric shocks were applied to their skin. And, in the case of soccer players, they were forced to kick concrete balls."(USA TODAY, July 30, 2003).

I am very proud to say that I support George W. Bush in this decision. I would like to remind everyone ,whoever is exercising their freedom of speech rights, that are anti war, that we would not have the right to freedom of speech if it weren't for most wars that have been fought by this country's honorable men. Instead we would be living in a Nazi Germany or present day Iraq kind of society , where you would be shot in the street for not agreeing with Saddam or get your tongue cut out for speaking your mind. We elected our President for a reason and he is acting on his power to protect us, and our children, and theirs, his power to protect us, and our children, and theirs, and their land theirs. . . I am glad we finally have a leader who will change our world to where I will not be scared to fly on a plane eyeballing every passenger. I will be able to sit in the penthouse of a huge office building and enjoy a beautiful September sky, and not a 747 headed straight at me. Terrorism is coming to an end. There are steps to make it happen. If you're not taking the steps, you're standing in the way.

After we attacked Iraq, Iraqi citizens were shown 'tearing down a poster of Saddam Hussein. Dexter Filkins ,of The New York Times, was interviewed, saying that Iraqis he had seen were “hugging and kissing every American they could find.” “(The trip) had shocked me back to reality. (Some Iraqis) told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."( Kenneth Joseph, anti-war demonstrator who traveled to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers, UPI, March 21, 2003).

The Iraqi children have benefited greatly because of the War With Iraq. On July 15, the World Food Program reported that nearly 1.5 million metric tons of food, have been dispatched to Iraq. An additional 2.2 million metric tons of food will arrive by the end of October. These steps will contribute to reversing malnutrition. 22.3 million doses of measles, tuberculosis, hepatitis B, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, and polio vaccines have been provided, enough to vaccinate 4.2 million children.

The top 12 financial supporters for the renewal of Iraq are (in descending order): the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia, Germany, Norway, Denmark, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Spain, and Kuwait. Nearly three dozen countries have made pledges or contributions to the renewal of Iraq. total of 19 countries providing more than 13,000 troops in Iraq are supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, and 14 countries are committed to deploying additional troops.Here are some quotes from our military, telling the people of Iraq what their expectations of this war will bring. Master Chief Petty Officer , U.S. Navy: “We want to free the citizens of Iraq from oppression and brutality, in order that you may choose your preferred way of life without fear of persecution, retribution or execution. I wish the people of Iraq peace and happiness.” Master Gunnery Sergeant, U.S. Marine Corps: “We want to restore Iraq and give her back to the citizens who live here. We want to see Iraq grow and prosper in away that the people of Iraq will no longer have to live feeling threatened, without basic necessities, and without the common decencies that every human without basic necessities, and without the common decencies that every human being deserves.” Sergeant, U. S. Marine Corps: “I would the Iraqi people to know each freedom we believe in is worth fighting for. State-run television and newspapers are a thing of the past. Speaking and writing what you believe is no longer prosecutable and to stand up for what you believe in. My mission is telling it how it is; something they should all begin practicing.” Saddam Hussein's regime posed a threat to the security of the United States and the world. With the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime, a leader who pursued, used, and possessed weapons of mass destruction is no longer in power.

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God Bless America

 

:rolleyes: I may not agree with our soldiers being in Iraq but I do support them 100%. I am a former marine wife and my hubby was in 91 when desert storm was going on and I know how it felt so I can just imagine what the wives and families are going thru now. Actually I do one of my neighbors on 5-23-04 was sitting eating dinner with her children when the military showed up at her door to tell her that her husband was killed in action in Iraq.

It devasted her world and the lives of her children. The laid him to rest on 6-3-04 and yes I am angry I don't believe we should fight any wars. Her husband told her it is like a doctor if he is not operating he is not a real doctor and if they are not fighting in a war they are not real soldiers and I understood that statement. This young men and women chose to protect our country and I am sooo proud of all of them.:( 798 men and women have lost their lives for our country and they should not be forgotten.

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Hm, so many good points. I personally don't like war, I don't see how seemingly good people are motivated to shoot another person in the head. My husband is ex-Special Forces and won't tell me about things that he has seen OR DONE. And he is just the salt of the earth and devoted fruit bearing Christian.

 

These things I do not understand and can not judge what is right or wrong. I don't agree with war, but I understand that at some level it must happen.

 

I support and pray for our troops and leaders. I pray that all of the victims of tragedies are comforted by the Holy Spirit while the will of God is being done. And I look forward to the day that we're all in Heaven and no longer have to deal with this sort of strife.

 

I know this is not the 'educated answer' you all were looking for, but that is my stance on the war in Iraq and everywhere else.

 

Love in Christ

-Eileen

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War

 

No one likes war (at least no peace loving people) but it unfortunately is a fact of life in this world. There are so many evil people out there who commit horrendous crimes and are never held accountable. I respect President Bush for pursuing his beliefs and Christian values. This is not an easy choice for him, could any of us decide with a snap of the fingers. I don't believe he sleeps easily knowing he is making life and death choices for our soldiers. But it is necessary! If no one takes the effort to stop these mad men, nothing will be done and the world will run rampant with fear, crime and mayhem. I don't like war and don't always agree with what is being done but it must be done. I personally think that Christ has blessed President Bush and he is President of the United States at this time for a reason. I haven't seen any previous Presidents step to the plate and do what is necessary (excluding President Reagan). We should all pray for President Bush and our troops and for the evil doers. I believe most of them know no ohter way. This is the way they are raised, to hate Americans and anyone who gets in their way. Violence is a way of life for them and children are exposed at a very early age to it. Prayer can do a lot if enough people are committed to it. We should stand behind our troops, pray for them as well as President Bush and last but certainly not least, remember that GOD IS IN CONTROL!!!! Only HE knows the outcome and what His plan is. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts!

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Just like in the passion when ( I think it was pilot) sorry not sure any way starts apologizing and saying blame your people not me. And Jesus said you do nothing to methat my father doesnt allow. Mean nothing you can say or do will affect me unless my father wanted it to be. I believe this is with every thing in lifeat this so ( nothing happens unless God allows it):D

 

So I believe each day in all things God is in charge. And if he didnt want the President doing what he is doing he wouldnt allow it. WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN ALL THINGS GOD IS IN CHARGE AND NOT US!!!!

 

And yes it take a very strong man to stand up for what he believes!!!!!!:D

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Cute Bumper Sticker

 

I saw a cute bumper sticker which, I think, fits into this thread and the viewpoints of the posters thus far. tehe :D

 

"It's God's job to forgive Osama, it's our job to arrange the meeting" US MARINES SEMPER FI

 

Love in Christ

-Eileen

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What I've been telling our war-protesting friends for over a year now is that I don't like war but that I trust our government leaders to make the proper decision with the information they have. Regardless of what comes out in the news there are thousands of details that we common folk don't know and may never know. Unless we have evidence that Washington powers are being abused and our leaders are in defiance of God (rather than some entertaining "documentary" by Michael Moore), we are called to pray for our leaders and support them.

 

And I really agree with what a couple of you have stated regarding God being in control even when there's wars and things seem chaotic. Since the war began, my husband and I don't pray for victory for one side or the other but that God may be glorified and that people may come to know him through the course of events. We pray for Saddam... what a testimony would it be if he came to know the Lord personally and confessed to the world and asked forgiveness?! I'm not holding my breath but God is a miracle worker and I know He is working good and beautiful things in the midst of the ugliness.

 

Laurie

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Amen Laurie !

 

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

Psalm 47: 7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

8 God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness

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I am not for war, but I do back up our president ! Our president had seen that it was right to take action now!! We need to rember to pray for our president .That through God Bush will be lead by the Holy Spirit , and that his decisions will be guided by God . The one who is in control!!!!!!!!!

And I am thankfull that He is the one in control!!!!((smile)) :)

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I am torn, I need some guiadance and pray, my 17 year old son Patrick has enlisted in the Marines, this is something that he as want to do for a long time. I support the military as my father, brothers and myself have all serve one time or other. He want to go to college and he does not want to get all those student loans. When we first talk to the Army recuiter, it look like he would get into the ROTC program, that away for the service to pay for college, but then the Marines came over and Patrick want to join the Marines. I feel a little betray as when the told me to signed this form I ask what is was for and the recuiter said just to sent him for his phyical. When it was for me to waved away my rights. Then he went down to the physcial and signed a contact for enlistment. Now he sent to go into the Marines as an enlistmen and an infranty mam. The kick is he as a good AFSAVB score. I know for a fact that the preson in charge scare patrick and then Patrick does not speak for himself. I want to say somethng but I know that Patrick will get upset if I interfed to much. A couple days ago he tell me that he want to go to college first and then Marines. I am asking for prays as we try to fit this problem. We have apply to the Naval ROTC program. We think it might be to late to go back to ARmy. I know I should have read that form but I trusted someone & should not have. Please pray for us as we go

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As someone who stopped her nephew from signing up for the Marines the day he was supposed to go, I understand what you're going through. Patrick is now on my permanent prayer list. Now that they "own" him, at least you can take pride in his decision. What guts it takes to join the Marines! He must be one special young man. Hopefully, that Naval ROTC thing will come through...

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I wonder if anyone has had a change of opinion on the war since it began. I know that I did. I thought that it would be a good thing at first and that we needed to do it but have changed my mind in the last few years. I still support the soldiers and have family members serving as we speak but am still opposed to the war. I think that we, as Christians are called to support our leaders but that doesn't mean that we are to accept whatever they say and do just because they are our leaders. We have a form of government that is supposed to be based on the people and not on the leaders. The leaders get their power from the people and should be ruled by what the people think. I think that we should defend ourselves as a country but we are spending too much time defending other countries and trying to make sure that different threats don't get a foothold in other places to spend much time fortifying our own country. I think we should spend more time at home worrying about our country here and defending it when the threat is here instead of trying to head off any threat that our government throws out there. I'm struggling with this again as there is talk of going into Iran. I feel like we're back at the same point we were at when we were discussing whether to go into Iraq or not. I don't feel like we made the best decisions with regards to Iraq and I'm afraid that we're going to make some of those same mistakes when it comes to Iran.

 

Another thought that bothers me and I would love some feedback on...why do we feel like we can tell the rest of the world that they can't have a nuclear program when we have one of the best in the world and have no intentions of getting rid of ours?

 

Just a thought that I have. I hope that our leadership will start paying more attention to what is happening here at home and start listening to the people (including many of the soldiers who have come home and talked about the horrors of this war) and not make the same mistakes again by trying to invade Iran when they haven't done anything to us. We need to stop trying to fight everyone else's battles for them.

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